Monday, June 4, 2012

#anonbloc

#anonbloc


Let's try to keep spin out of this hmmm?  I'd really like to hear both sides of the argument for and against #anonbloc.  I've compiled what information I could find here, please hit me up with any other info you can find.  The action is already running, but I think it's important to continue the dialogue in a public fashion.

Thanks,
KC
TOTAL #mgmgtfag :p

See updates at the bottom of the page.
Check out and participate in the #anonbloc discussion on twitter

anonblackbloc.flv

Update: #anonbloc code of conduct/ resources/ explanation 

Update: Anonymous warning to #blackbloc (from January)


CyberGuerrilla.info

Script
Greetings, citizens of the world.
We are Anonymous.
We watched live as events unfolded in Chicago and moments later as the people were bombarded with lies by the mainstream media. The talking heads painted a picture of violence and chaos; which was true. Although they would have you believe that the people were to blame, the Chicago Police Department were the true culprits behind any chaos and escalation of violence at the NATO summit - as they brought the might of the United States Government down on the heads of children, the elderly, and the disabled. Despite the media's vehement claims that would have you believe that the peaceful protesters took any part in the escalation of this mayhem, Anonymous and Black Bloc were the ones who stepped into the fray to defend the People from this brutality.
What do you do when those who are tasked to serve and protect no longer protect you? What do you do when they turn on you and attack? Who do you turn to?
When the people cried out for justice - we listened.
When the people cried out for their rights - we prepared.
When the people cried out for mercy - we acted.
Innocent civilians are in danger.
It is time for YOU to step in.
To those who subscribe to Black Bloc tactics: Occupy introduced the general public to Anonymous and how social media can be used in pursuit of freedom. Furthermore, the recent protests have demonstrated that there are many willing to take up the fist and shield of Black Bloc in defense of the innocent. But Anonymous is just an idea. And Black Bloc is just a tactic. Alone, our powers wane in the face of increased governmental scrutiny. Combined, we have the capacity to become an unstoppable force within the movement.
For those of you who dare to raise your fist and voice in defence of our very freedom, join us.
#AnonBloc initiated.
We are #AnonBloc.
We are your sword.
We are your shield.
Expect us

Black Bloc Meets Chicago Cops



This is an example of protesters in black bloc attempting to use a phalanx formation to breach a police kettling line. Some argue that encouraging protesters to participate in such actions is dangerous, and irresponsible.  As you can see in the video, protesters in black bloc form a body to move aggressively against police, inciting retaliation.

Black Bloc Hits Occupy Oakland



In the above video you can see protesters in black bloc arguing with other protesters. There are claims that protesters in black bloc have actively sought to sow anarchy within the movement.

Black Block in Seattle



In the video protesters in black bloc smash windows.

Battle on Oak Street #j28 occupy oakland



In the above video police fire (something) and what looks like smoke grenades behind a line of protesters from a kettling line. Some argue that this level of violence on the part of the police, makes it necessary to protect protesters by lining up in black bloc.

Stream of #J28 actions

Picture of blackbloc protesters with sticks

Picture of blackbloc protesters with sticks

If anyone has any videos or pictures of May Day actions please get in touch.  There are other examples of use of defensive blackbloc as well as examples of kettling.

After a few days of digging around, I haven't been able to find a whole lot of evidence that this technique is either successful, or advisable if one wants to protest in a peaceful fashion.  There are, of course the arguments of agent provocateurs, and anarchists infiltrating protests in order to incite violence between peaceful protesters and police.  At which point, how do you tell the difference between provocateur and #anonbloc?  Is this something that could cause infighting between direct action groups that wish to act out against police, and those that wish to be a shield?   Is it ethically right to recruit people to put themselves in danger to provide protection for someone else?

Please, anyone with any additional information, videos etc. feel free to get in touch.
KC

UPDATE: Questions that have come up:
*What are the legal repercussions of these actions?

*Is interposing oneself between protester and police officer or other protester legal?

*Is recruiting without fully understanding the legal repercussions of the operation responsible?

*How is #anonbloc different from #OpV?

**Note: Some feel that going the road of legal protection is a mistake, as the authorities with lie, misinterpret, create or enforce law as they see fit, without regard to law as it stands now.

**Note: Concerns regarding the inherent violence of the technique is not in keeping with the principles of anonymous of "peace and justice", also the lack of up front information and clarity in the promotional video appears to violate the concept of Freedom of Information.   There are arguments that this tactic would further the goals of peace and justice by providing a shield between peaceful protesters and police.

**Note: The concerns regarding violence against police in the above videos has been written off as "agent provocateurs" and undercover police by several folks participating in the discussion.

**Note: Another concern is that not advertising the legal repercussions of these actions is akin to propaganda.

**Note: Some are concerned that violence on the part of black bloc protesters in the past will taint #anonbloc, and that it will be a sanction to participate in further violent action against police.

**Note #OpV video here.

**Note: Here is a pre-sentencing interview with activist Kelly Pflug-Back; she was arrested on several charges at the G20 conference in 2010. via Comrade Black on profaneexistence.com

Check out and participate in the #anonbloc discussion on twitter

23 comments:

  1. Anonbloc must keep blackbloc in check, anonbloc is not anarchy since principles define laws and rules of engagement.
    Anonymous follows the will of the many while maintaining core principles of peace and justice. Without party, without leaders, without affiliation, without time or space.
    This is how anonbloc can emerge properly, one just has to follow the code. Simple.

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    1. I think the question may be whether the safety of the operation will compromise those tennants of peace and justice. By releasing the operation early without having all information about legal protection, safety concerns etc in hand I personally feel it was irresponsible. After reviewing as much information as I have, asking people to make this sacrifice without providing all the information up front is downright criminal. People look up to anonymous, proceeding with this operation without following through with the logic in all directions will do far more harm than good.

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    2. yes sure, indeed... I just think the idea is good and might work. What you talk about are things that would get processed and acquired through anonymous where ANY consensus is messy and met with apathy. Ideas are only popular if they are good. So what if #Anonbloc ends up being flash-mob dancers at protests. Now THAT is awesome. How better to protect protesters than by spreading joy... LULZ!! Anonbloc could turn a protest into a choreographed boogie and can dramatize police and citizen protection while mocking police. No real anon advocates violence, it kinda fades you out if that is really your intention. (apparently between 5% and 15% of the population constantly seek to resolve frustration through violence - also focused on age/social groups - / culture, etc... )

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    3. What you have described is anarchy. Anarchism is a social movement that seeks freedom from oppressive systems of control, whether they be the state, capitalism, racism, sexism, or religious institutions. Anarchists advocate a self-managed stateless society without borders, bosses, or rulers where everyone takes personal responsibility for the health and prosperity of their community.

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    4. Anarchy or not, I've yet to see protesters able to keep direct action groups in black bloc in check. If anyone has experience where "self policing" has worked in occupy camps, or with larger protests please ring in.

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  2. Thanks for talking about it. I love the idea of a flashmob. Masks must be PINK.

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  3. Another option that came up was to avoid kettling lines altogether by having anons direct the protesters away from the police. That would also incorporate volunteers outside the hive...

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  4. #anonbloc is an effective way of channeling the aggressiveness of #blackbloc and the anarchic factions. Without direction or a purpose the sort of energy that #blackbloc and anarchic members bring could easily boil over into naked violence and rioting. #anonbloc is also a legitimate method of providing defense for those who choose an entirely non-violent method of protest. At some point when you get tired of being pushed around by the school yard bully, you HAVE to stand your ground. Even if you may leave bruised and bloodied.
    The tactic can't be applied in every case. It is not an excuse to encourage aggression from the L/E community. An example I'd like to make in that respect happened this morning. I came across a defacto call to arms using the #anonbloc hashtag in response to a police show of force at an eviction that was being protested by occupy.
    Yes the cop was out of line, yes he needs to pay for it, and yes he certainly needs to be caught on video so that he can hopefully be prosecuted. However, I really don't think that this is an effective, efficient, or sensible use of the anonbloc tactic. I feel the same way about the entire occupy foreclosures concept. I'm all for trying to help the people losing their homes, so let's help them. Getting in the way of the repossession does nothing for us. Or the former home owner. It does however put us in direct conflict with L/E and at that point we're nearing the line of provocation. It's not the county official we have a beef with, it's the banks. MAKE THEM PAY. Find out which bank repossessed the property and occupy their places of business. Sorry, I have completely digressed...

    #anonbloc seems a worthy tactic where there is a high protester turnout and especially if there happens to be a coordinated and outright show of force by cops. The right to assemble has no conditions placed upon it in the constitution, so they are in violation for trying to prevent us. The right to bear arms is not for the purpose of hunting food it is "necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms". Should #anonbloc arrive at protests armed, it should be for the sole reason of DEFENDING against those who have all but destroyed the 'free state' we once were.
    For anyone who wants to be an effective part of an anonbloc defensive stand I'd suggest finding a local chapter of The Society for Creative Anachronisms and checking out one of their heavy combat practice days. If anyone can teach you how to properly wield a shield and use it effectively to stand or take ground, or how to use long spears/pole weapons to keep a force at bay its them.
    So long as #anonbloc enforcers remember that the point right now is to resist and defend, harass and frustrate, and then when the time is right, break the kettling lines and allow the protesters through then other who are till now afraid may also see that they too can take a stand against an oppressor

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    1. I'm just not sure how you can say #anonbloc is effective if it hasn't been tried. Even some the cats that claim to have rolled the operation out say "it's not ready yet". If someone seeks to engage law enforcement on their own as an autonomous action in black bloc or not wearing a Guy Fawks mask or not, that's their choice.

      When a group of people that are looked up to in a lot of respects, (I realize anonymous is an idea, however, largely the perception is that anonymous is a "club" of sorts with codes and tenants that are adhered to) start encouraging that level of self sacrifice it throws red flags up all over the place for me. Being in a position of "power" however tenuous, doesn't give anyone the right ask others to put themselves in danger.

      Last time I checked, that's exactly what we were all trying to stop.

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    2. I apologize for misspeaking. I wasn't trying to imply or claim that it has, of yet, been successful in it's stated objective of adequately providing a defense. In that regard they have yet to come through.
      When I said that they were effective at channeling the #blackbloc's energies into something more (potentially) productive. #Blackbloc cannot be excluded, but some of the actions taken by members who were recklessly and indiscriminately had to be reigned in. #anonbloc is effective in THAT regard I believe.
      Are you religious? I'm not, but if you are maybe you'll find a correlation. Many religions teach the value of self sacrifice. Some absolutely require it (though most followers of said religions only make a show of being this way, for appearances, while they take all they can behind the scenes... another topic for another time). So it's a pretty universal thought that self sacrifice for a greater good is a positive reaction to trying circumstances. Sacrifice may be the incorrect word to really use here as well though. I don't see the activation of #anonbloc as being an encouragement to go sacrifice yourself, it's encouragement to stand and hold your ground.
      Regardless of what the 'progressive' humanists might think, pacifism isn't a very good trait for an entire societal group to possess. The only circumstances that cultural or governmental change ever occurs peacefully is when both sides are unwilling to engage in violence or a certain level of violence. This government is predicated on it's willingness to enter into armed conflicts to achieve it's goals. A passive nonviolent movement trying to achieve a shift in power away from an aggressive and violent group will most often be simply oppressed, imprisoned, and through steady attrition their voice will fade for the fact that there are so few left. I'm not advocating a war or initiating violent acts on the police, politicians, or any other person in the US government. I am advocating taking a stand on the issue of being physically prevented from assembling, protesting, marching, and speaking. I especially find the restrictions such as confining us to sidewalks, or cordoned off areas, criminalizing sleeping, disrupting our camps and kettling to be particularly offensive CRIMINAL acts. It for one violates our rights, period, but beyond that it is also clear discrimination. Had fans decided to take to the streets to celebrate the super bowl win the city officials would have gladly shut down any road and let them continue as long as no violence ensued. Hell the police would have escorted a singing throng of people across a closed brooklyn bridge so long as it was in support of the Giants (even to the dismay of jets fans). If people were camping at zuccotti so that they could be the first to spend $500 on the next new iphone, everyone would be all smiles and high fives all over the media.
      Since this is dissent, the rules suddenly change. Now we can't sleep, we can't leave the sidewalk, we can't be in a public area after a certain time, and we can't be there too long, and there can't be too many of us. This is not acceptable. Every time they say leave and we do they are emboldened. Every time we let them herd us into corners like a flock of sheep and we do nothing but bleat in anger we are handing over more strength, even if it is just a psychological loss.

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    3. In the civil war the union lost nearly every major battle that they engaged in. Robert E Lee was kicking the shit out of them time and time again, however they continued to fight. The same can be said for the revolutionary war.
      So long as we take a stand and at least make an attempt to prevent our liberties from being stolen we will go home at the end of the day with that psychological boost. We're not likely to 'win' in any the conflicts that will arise at protests in a militarized manner. For us keeping the kettling lines at bay is a win, stopping a cop from beating or molesting a random female protester, or physically taking back video cameras or taking back snatched protesters before they can be dragged off behind lines and arrested, THESE are our wins.
      Now, do we have the the training, or the equipment to achieve any of this? Fuck, no. But if we have the will to stand then we do have numbers, we have intelligence, and we have the support of a significant number of former and in some cases current military. This is where the anarchists and those who oppose leadership in the movement are going to have to wake up and realize that in some cases to be organized there has to be some sort of central authority, even if they aren't a leader in the traditional sense.
      Here's the last of my lengthy responses to what you bring up. The things that we are trying to stop is the abuse of the people, the manipulation of the public, the destruction of our rights, the lies and corruption and destruction laid upon the rest of the world in our name. We are trying to stop this government from carrying on acts of horror throughout the world and convincing us that somehow they are to blame. Most of all we are trying to stop the economic indentured servitude that we have nearly all been put under. It is at the core, what we are trying to stop, because it is the force that makes all of those other actions possible. Wars are never ever ever really about idealogical differences. Wars are the results of economics. Genocides are carried out because the other ethnicity is occupying land or controlling resources, WWI was a war over oil and control of shipping lanes, WWII was an extension of that, the civil war was a war over not whether a man could be a slave, it was over the labor costs for producing cotton and tobacco. So this conflict, while not a war, is also about economics. If every occupier had a decent job and no debt THERE WOULD BE NO OCCUPY. If we understand what we're really doing at the absolute core, we'll make fewer emotionally driven mistakes.
      Being in a position of quasi-leadership it is not a right for anonymous to encourage people, it is their DUTY. Duty should never fall on the shoulders of the masses, that is the responsibility of the leadership. #anonbloc isn't TELLING or FORCING anyone to stand up and fight, they are encouraging people to under an act of free will, stand with ANONBLOC, because ANONBLOC now has the duty to protect. You and I can sit here and debate all day, no one will bitch, except maybe my boyfriend. Anonymous and the Blackbloc are at the core of the movement. Anon had hands in its formation, and blackbloc let our collective anger loose, though in many ways focusing it in the wrong direction. As a face the 'idea' has to evolve along with everything else and since the protests have become more and more dangerous for the average person it is the duty of the groups that bring the attention to also provide the protection.
      It is your right to decline.
      In truth, most people should not be involved in anonbloc, especially not anyone who has wavering emotions or thoughts on the matter. Stay peaceful, keep sites like this open and active and full of debate, make videos, make banners, write petitions. It will take all of us to get through this.

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  5. I'm going to have to break it down to response paragraph by paragraph. You put a lot of thought into your response, so thank you very much.

    **"I apologize for misspeaking. I wasn't trying to imply or claim that it has, of yet, been successful in it's stated objective of adequately providing a defense. In that regard they have yet to come through.

    When I said that they were effective at channeling the #blackbloc's energies into something more (potentially) productive. #Blackbloc cannot be excluded, but some of the actions taken by members who were recklessly and indiscriminately had to be reigned in. #anonbloc is effective in THAT regard I believe."

    I beg to differ, in my experience members in black bloc use intimidation tactics on protesters that are just as abhorrent as those of the police. Calls for calm and requests for non-violence have been met with curses and disruptive action.

    Tactics similar to this idea were used during the RNC (2004 I believe) by groups trained by Lisa Fithian to disrupt the constitutional rights of a political party that her group of protesters didn't believe in. What about the people who live in that city, what about their safety and constitutional rights? What if they want the police there "protecting" them.

    **Are you religious? I'm not, but if you are maybe you'll find a correlation. Many religions teach the value of self sacrifice. Some absolutely require it (though most followers of said religions only make a show of being this way, for appearances, while they take all they can behind the scenes... another topic for another time)."

    I'm not religious, and to be honest that's why it took me so long to respond. Religion has been used for years by politicians as a way to soothe and enrage the masses. Rhetoric changes when it's convenient to a political party, and historically it's been used to incite violence between peoples. So no, I don't believe in religious self sacrifice. The use of self sacrifice in religion has been traditionally a way for the "powers that be" to get what they want out of the lower classes. So you can see why that argument puts up some red flags for me.

    **"So it's a pretty universal thought that self sacrifice for a greater good is a positive reaction to trying circumstances. Sacrifice may be the incorrect word to really use here as well though. I don't see the activation of #anonbloc as being an encouragement to go sacrifice yourself, it's encouragement to stand and hold your ground."

    Correct me if I'm wrong but the cases where this tactic are needed are when "kettling" occurs. At least in my experience that tactic has been used when HUGE numbers of protesters convene on a city, which would mean that those protesters aren't from that city and it's not "their" ground to stand. Local law enforcement see it as an aggressive invasion, largely because the Mainstream media portrays it as such. There's a ton of bullshit on both sides.

    **"Regardless of what the 'progressive' humanists might think, pacifism isn't a very good trait for an entire societal group to possess. The only circumstances that cultural or governmental change ever occurs peacefully is when both sides are unwilling to engage in violence or a certain level of violence. This government is predicated on it's willingness to enter into armed conflicts to achieve it's goals. A passive nonviolent movement trying to achieve a shift in power away from an aggressive and violent group will most often be simply oppressed, imprisoned, and through steady attrition their voice will fade for the fact that there are so few left."

    I can agree that this has been the case, but it's not happening here. Have you noticed that the rest of the world is tearing itself apart, we're not there yet. There's probably a reason for that. And encouraging violence is going to get you there a whole lot faster IMHO.

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  6. **"I'm not advocating a war or initiating violent acts on the police, politicians, or any other person in the US government. I am advocating taking a stand on the issue of being physically prevented from assembling, protesting, marching, and speaking."

    I agree that a stand should be taken, however I firmly believe that #anonbloc advocates violence. The video being disseminated is nothing short of propaganda. No further information has been spread as to how to protect oneself in those situations. The manner in which this operation has been executed thus far (even in preparation) is largely irresponsible.

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  7. **" I especially find the restrictions such as confining us to sidewalks, or cordoned off areas, criminalizing sleeping, disrupting our camps and kettling to be particularly offensive CRIMINAL acts."

    I agree, peruse restitution in a criminal court. Take videos rather than throwing sticks, instead of puting oneself in the "line of fire" so to speak, catch them in the action, bombard the ACLU, media, alt-media, mayors office, governors office, statehouse, no concerted effort has been tried to make this stop in a legal redress of grievances according to the laws that have been around for two hundred years.

    **"It for one violates our rights, period, but beyond that it is also clear discrimination. Had fans decided to take to the streets to celebrate the super bowl win the city officials would have gladly shut down any road and let them continue as long as no violence ensued. Hell the police would have escorted a singing throng of people across a closed brooklyn bridge so long as it was in support of the Giants (even to the dismay of jets fans). If people were camping at zuccotti so that they could be the first to spend $500 on the next new iphone, everyone would be all smiles and high fives all over the media."

    You weren't in Boston for the Red Sox "riots" people die at our sports celebrations

    **"Since this is dissent, the rules suddenly change. Now we can't sleep, we can't leave the sidewalk, we can't be in a public area after a certain time, and we can't be there too long, and there can't be too many of us. This is not acceptable. Every time they say leave and we do they are emboldened. Every time we let them herd us into corners like a flock of sheep and we do nothing but bleat in anger we are handing over more strength, even if it is just a psychological loss."

    The entire story of protesters or police hasn't been told. There is no clear picture as to what they've been told, what their orders are etc. There's no clear picture as to what media they've seen. Do you actually believe that ALL law enforcement officers are out to get protesters?

    There were several times, when I still took pictures at protests, that police kept me from falling off of something, or getting hit by folks running around like mad men. And you know what? I wasn't wearing a press badge out in the open.

    I'm not famous, I'm not on the news, I'm an intern at a radio station, a nobody. Largely the reason I don't shoot anymore is because of the intimidation tactics used by protesters black bloc or not ON THE MEDIA as well as law enforcement, but I digress.

    My whole issue with this isn't the tactic itself, if someone wants to take part, they can knock themselves out and probably will. My issue is with the absolute irresponsibility, and complete lack of information that goes along with this action. The tactic, idea, concept, aren't explained AT ALL.

    The videos that were used to edit the promo vid were taken COMPLETELY out of context. There is no additional "go here to learn how to not bleed when you piss after one of these encounters" "this is the equipment to look into" "this is how you keep from being trampled" "this is how you breech a line without hurting yourself or someone else"

    Folks can say all they want that "the op isn't released yet" then don't put out the video, you're inviting the criticism and suggestion. I for one, was there the night of the eviction false alarm in Boston, folks claiming to be from Zuccotti were talking about lighting shit on fire and attacking the police. I don't want that in my city, and I'll be right there in between you and the cops, without a mask to stop it.

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  8. Sorry about the spamming, that was a HUGE post, I don't want to beleaguer the point, I just didn't want to miss something, considering the thought and care you put into your response.

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  9. Last paragraph this got lost in the copy.

    As for the psychological loss, from what I've seen folks are setting themselves up to lose in this occupation process. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've yet to see a truly concerted effort to pursue a legal redress of grievances. Until those steps are taken, I will not advocate violence, and I will question anyone that does.

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  10. It's funny because my ACTUAL post was twice that length, but for whatever reason it didn't get posted, even though I am sure that the text was in the field and that I hit publish. After the amount of time it took I could totally have also hit preview. Either way it was an 'in the moment' post and I'm sure the points I was making will come up again somewhere along the way.
    I think that we can agree that up to this point there has been no considerable application of the #anonbloc tactic since it's announcement, which is good. I don't think there has been an appropriate moment. It is not a to be used daily sort of thing. I do think that it needs to be active and ready, so to speak, and on to your responses :
    'I beg to differ, in my experience members in black bloc use intimidation tactics on protesters that are just as abhorrent as those of the police. Calls for calm and requests for non-violence have been met with curses and disruptive action.'

    Agreed, up till now that has been the case. #anonbloc keeps them in the fold and a part of the movement. They now have more direction. A purpose, and if the need arises the protesters can see them as an asset, rather than a nuisance. Here's a point I made that got deleted... anonymous and blackbloc have been the ones to drive an escalation that has occured so far, they've become the defacto (maybe not THE but certainly A) face of occupy. A leader (though noone wants to call anyone else a leader yet) within the movement. As a leader they have a DUTY to provide some level of protection and defense, since they are likely the ones to have angered L/E in the first place. This goes back to the idea of self sacrifice. I was attempting to explain that self sacrifice is not a negative thing, assuming that it is your that decides to do the self sacrificing. If a government or a religion expects it of you it's not exactly self sacrifice any more. It's just sacrificing. I don't think that #anonbloc is encouraging anyone to sacrifice themselves or to take action they are not comfortable with. The activation on #anonbloc is a call for those who are willing as well as those who have claimed the name of anonymous or blackbloc for themselves. #anonbloc is saying (IMO) that if you want the designation of being a member, then you have a duty to defend the other members of the movement.

    'Tactics similar to this idea were used during the RNC (2004 I believe) by groups trained by Lisa Fithian todisrupt the constitutional rights of a political party that her group of protesters didn't believe in. What about the people who live in that city, what about their safety and constitutional rights? What if they want the police there "protecting" them.'

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  11. Everything is situational, therefore requires different tactical responses. In her case the groups were trained to use those tactics for an entirely different purpose. She had intent from the beginning to harass and disrupt a group that would not use the same tactics on her. She knew that i am sure from the beginning. #anonbloc is the application of the same sort of tactics that are already being directed AT US. When I was younger I used to get into fights and I can only remember getting my ass handed to me one time, and that was my first fight. I am not a badass, in noooo way at all, I'm kinda dorky and goofy, yet I don't lose fights. Why? Because I am always willing to do what the other person isn't. That is what wins fights and wars, it's the ugly secret no-one wants to admit. I have no problem with it. If it comes to the point that we're fighting, there are no 'fair fight' rules. We did not start this fight with L/E. This fight began long ago, and it has been violent, dirty, and it has cost us more than even those in the movement have come to realize. The systematic removal of the control of our own lives in exchange for a comfortable place to sit, eat a quick tasty poison filled dinner, and watch a girl who can sing become a pop idol, rich and a celebrity. Our little reminder that the American Dream still comes true for someone. How has it gotten to this? The people have not been willing to do what the government does to us in this fight. They put us in jail for theft and doing drugs, and we let them walk out or live in a mansion as punishment while they steal billions of dollars and import or manufacture the very drugs we get jailed for. Why? We aren't willing to force them to follow the same laws. They experience record profits and and dramatic salary increases while we lose our jobs, and are forced to pay for the medical care every other country enjoys for free (relatively). Why? Because we aren't willing to walk out on the jobs they've saved for us. Because we aren't willing to say fuck you, and go wait in line at the community hospital or the free clinics.
    'Have you noticed that the rest of the world is tearing itself apart, we're not there yet. There's probably a reason for that. And encouraging violence is going to get you there a whole lot faster IMHO.'
    We have been tearing ourselves apart since the late sixties, the process has been long and drawn out because no-one has gotten pissed off enough yet to really push the subject because the one thing our government has been really good at is keeping us comfortable and placated. NOONE has trusted the government since the 60's, seriously, every group in the country has something negative to say about our government. They simple attribute the bad shit to the 'others' in the system that the 'us's haven't been able to get rid of yet. Now it's different. People are really reaching the breaking point, many of them are subconsciously showing the signs even though they don't outwardly admit anything is wrong. This government has such an overwhelmingly able military that if they sense that the whole country is on that edge, they will go into an oppressive action that has no equal. How is a leaderless throng of idealistic pacifists going to stop them? They know they can take our rights, jobs, health and we don't do shit, why would they think for a second that we could resist. If we don't begin to mobilize a defensive front now we're going to be the massacre that no-one ever hears of.

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  12. 'My whole issue with this isn't the tactic itself, if someone wants to take part, they can knock themselves out and probably will. My issue is with the absolute irresponsibility, and complete lack of information that goes along with this action. The tactic, idea, concept, aren't explained AT ALL.'

    I don't think I could agree with you more on that statement. This is one of the pitfalls of having the horizontal, leaderless type of 'idea'. (Another point that got unfortunately erased... and i feel like it was such a quality piece of work)

    All of the 'bloc' members are going to have to accept one thing very very quickly or the whole op is DOA. You cannot have a successful tactical response to attack without leadership, codes of conduct, and acting as a cohesive order taking group. Which pretty much flies in the face of everything the anarchists want to hold onto. The response during NATO was horrid. I understand it is more like a tv pilot than an actual episode, but there was such a lack of organization. It looked more like a bunch of movie extras trying to reenact a scene from 300. If any of the 'bloc' want to really get an idea of how to effectively use a shield and poles to defend a position they need to spend a sunday with members of the Society of Creative Anachronisms. This is how you execute a shield charge : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE5v10Eqkks

    Trash can halves as shields? Seriously? I know that they are cheap and plentiful, but hell, steal road signs or something. If you're going to bring a stick, or a weapon or armament of any sort LEARN to use it for what it is intended for. If the intent is to resist the kettle lines from pushing you from your positions then take up proper positions. The lead line of 'bloc' need to have rigid semi uniform shields that can overlap each other and that's it! They block, push and maneuver. The second line uses pole arms to keep the kettle line at a distance by bracing the pole on the ground with its shaft protruding past the wall of shields. If the kettle line approaches the spearman use the length to push them back, and should the kettle line charge the braced spear makes them at worst at least wary, and at best can be used to repel.
    I remember you mentioning that the 'bloc' used a phalanx formation in some of their actions, but they weren't anywhere close. Every member of the 'bloc' is going to have to learn these things on their own, and I have serious doubts that it is going to have an impact unless some sort of actual legitimate leadership begins to emerge. I basically feel the same way about the occupy movement in general, to be honest. Humans are a hierarchical social being. Somewhere along the way the populace was lied to and convinced that people can just work together without incentive for a collective good.

    Well that's total bullshit that we were taught along with pacifism. Sometimes people need to be lead, and the often also need to be told what to do, when and where. It's just a fact of our social structure. Maybe that's the other reason I am in support of the 'blocs'. Someone made a decision, and presented a course of action. Occupy needs that. It's been 8 months and here were little more than this mob that shows up and well, occupies a place for awhile till we're told to leave.

    It is the biggest complaint I hear about the movement. Why are they protesting, what do they want, how do they want the government to change.

    Wow, I stayed up faaaaaaaaaaaar later than i meant to typing this and I honestly don't even know if the last 1/3 has made a lick of sense. I literally fell asleep sitting up at my laptop. If I talked in circles, i apologize, I'll edit tomorrow.

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    1. dood, I totally feel you, I typed out an entire message the first time and accidentally deleted it. I almost threw my goddamn laptop out the goddamn window.

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  13. See! Maybe there is a little #anonbloc in you after all.

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  14. Ha! I'm fully willing to admit that my ignorance of the concept of diversity of tactics has skewed my view on the topic. Also, my own sense of idealism is at very harsh odds with the reality of the current model of protest. In researching and attempting to find a global view, incorporating these tactics as a small part of a very large political action, I can admit and recognize the value.

    That being said, the idealist ninny in me cringes at the use of propaganda. Academically, again I can recognize the value, in my heart it makes me sad. I don't think less of myself for admitting that. I would however think less of myself if I leaned on the crutch of my ignorance and didn't provide context for #anonbloc in the greater scheme of political action and diversity of tactics.

    To be frank, I'm not in any position to place #anonbloc within the theater of diversity of tactics or political protest as a whole. My gross ignorance, would provide a skewed view, so, it's a bit of a catch 22.

    I still have a ton of research to go through, I'm putting together a "history of black bloc" and the developing use of diversity of tactics in political theater. If you'd care to ring in, I'd like to continue the discussion along that forum.

    As you have stated your case, you feel that this tactic is necessary, I may not necessarily agree but it's not my place to stop you. Would you be willing to help me provide that context? To paint a picture that allows people who have reached that "breaking point" where this level of "theater" is necessary, make an informed and safe decision?

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  15. (the "Ha!" was in response to your "See! Maybe there is a little #anonbloc in you after all." I won't deny I've been tempted a time or two. And someday my laptop will feel my wrath.

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